I was told about the book last night, and after reading all your comments I am intrigued to read it, sounds like a few of you might want to pass your copy on?:-)
All I can say is "who am I to judge another person?"
We will all find out in the end in any case, but I would say on the question of faith, that it is a bit like the 'global warming debate' - the cost of not doing anything is too great - it will cost the earth!
The cost of not thoroughly examining the bible is too great also - it will cost you your life! So don't you think it would be worth your life to at least examine the case documentation before your own jury is out? ie from Genesis to Revelation?
Even God grants us free will...enjoy your free will!
"Who am I to judge another person?" - that's amazingly disingenuous, isn't it? Do you give money to everyone who asks for it? Do you believe every tall tale you are told? Would you believe a Muslim who claims that his religion is the only true one?
Faith is fine, until it's someone else's that's different from yours.
My grandmother gave me a copy of Dr. Wagner's book about 20 years ago. I couldn't put the book down. It was quite a testimony! Believe it or not, God is able. He moves in so many different ways. Many years ago, I was driving home from downtown Chicago heading to the south side. It was cold and the roads were slick and icy. As I entered the Dan Ryan expressway, My car spun around and was facing 3 lanes of oncoming cars. I was in shock. All of a sudden I heard a voice (I was alone in the car.) say, "Pull the car over! The engine is still running!" I did and just missed getting hit head on. I know it was the voice of the Lord. I have had other experience like this one but have not seen the Lord. I do believe Dr. Wagner's story be ause we cannot put God in a box. He chooses how, when, who, and where. We are only clay.
How do you know your heaven guided intuition is the real thing? Some Christians don't think that the things Muhammad saw were real but they agree that the things that they see are. Does that make sense? Other Christians take things with a grain of salt and think of Simon Magus. Remember the words of Hamlet after having seen the apparition of his father:
The spirit that I have seen
May be the devil: and the devil hath power
To assume a pleasing shape; yea, and perhaps
Out of my weakness and my melancholy,
As he is very potent with such spirits,
Abuses me to damn me: I'll have grounds
More relative than this. The play 's the thing
Wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king.
Really? There is no way anyone can make someting up like this? Have you ever read fiction?
People of your sort scare me. Your the type who believe the contents of such things as "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" When someone shouts "She's a witch!!" you don't even wait to see if she floats or sinks, its directly on to the pire with her!
I've gone off Yahsua. Also when I hear the words "Mark of the Beast" I think of my Uncle Mark, a rabid Christian who thinks I am going straight to hell, no questions asked. Why? Cause I believe that homosexuals were not going to hell.
As it happens I decided that it would be fittingly ironic to pray to Reginald Edward one night. I asked him to heal my ... well I don't know what it was, I've obviously been very sick lately, blood coming out of the seams everywhere constantly, you wouldn't want me to describe it. Been too afraid to visit the doctor.
Anyway, I prayed to old Reginald and the next day I woke up quite healed. No sickness, no blood, went to the doctor and he said I was completely healthy. I am doing roof work and all kinds of heavy lifting now, and no blood anywhere.
Furthermore my tomatoes did considerably better than the neighbors. I am not sure what Reginald Edward looks like but I am painting an icon to put in my prayer room. It will be Reginald Edward fighting off the Harlequin Love Ponies of Quilleby Meadows. My own interpretation of the features of his true and perfect holiness is 1st Marquess Wellesley, about 1825, but I would welcome knowledge of anyone who has a better idea of the blinding face of our redemption.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Richard_Colley_Wellesley,_Marquess_Wellesley_by_John_Philip_Davis_('Pope'_Davis).jpg
I just finished reading this book and I think it was an awesome testimony. I know to some of you it sounds unbelievable, but so did the parting of the red sea, a burning bush, a virgin birth. God always works in ways that seem unbelievable to our limited human minds. But He says "My ways are not your ways, and My thoughts are not your thoughts. My ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts." Jesus came and walked among the people of those days, performing many miracles, and still the people did not believe what they saw. so it doesn't surprise me that many of you don't believe Dr. Wagner's story. Those of you who don't believe may want to stop and pray, and ask God to truly show you if this is truth or not. "Seek and you shall find, Ask and it shall be answered" . If you ask honestly, with an open heart, He will show you the truth. As the disciples prayed, "Lord, help us with our unbelief", so should we.
How do you know your heaven guided intuition is the real thing? Some Christians don't think that the things Muhammad saw were real but they agree that the things that they see are. Does that make sense? Other Christians take things with a grain of salt and think of Simon Magus. Remember the words of Hamlet after having seen the apparition of his father:
The spirit that I have seen
May be the devil: and the devil hath power
To assume a pleasing shape; yea, and perhaps
Out of my weakness and my melancholy,
As he is very potent with such spirits,
Abuses me to damn me: I'll have grounds
More relative than this. The play 's the thing
Wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king.
Back in 1971 (about the time all this happened to Ms Wagner), Clifford Irving wrote a fictional biography of Howard Hughes, attempting to portray it as truth, changing the names of actual people in the narrative, not all that different from what Wagner did. Was he sued? You bet your ass he was! If Pettie wasn't sued she at least took a big enough risk with the truth that could have had her in a docket like Irving and not like was written about in Murdered Heiress.
The names in the book have been changed, though in the past that's not deterred some people from taking legal action against writers of avowed fiction.
I'd dearly love to know what the documented facts are in this case, but no one seems able to produce any.
Murdered Heiress is not presented as avowed ficition, but fact. I read the book and there is plenty of slander to go around if anybody recognises themself in Ms. Wagner's tale.
Too bad that even the threat of a suit never came up; we might have gotten the true version then.
Somebody a few messages ago made what I think is a valid point: Why haven't lawsuits been brought against Ms. Wagner if she was in fact lying about Dr. Holmes, the hospital and the rest? They all have a good case against her.
I read the book and I can see where it could have happened. The spiritual stuff I leave up to Mrs. Wagner and the true believers. I am talking about the murder and theft of millions part. The plotters that stole her money didn't plan past getting it. They could have taken some advice in extortion from the Gambinos or Costaglianos.
The names in the book have been changed, though in the past that's not deterred some people from taking legal action against writers of avowed fiction.
I'd dearly love to know what the documented facts are in this case, but no one seems able to produce any.
Murdered Heiress is not presented as avowed ficition, but fact. I read the book and there is plenty of slander to go around if anybody recognises themself in Ms. Wagner's tale.
Too bad that even the threat of a suit never came up; we might have gotten the true version then.
I read this years ago and stupidly believed it. Now I realize it's fake. Why does Jesus look exactly the way we picture him? How could we know he really had brown hair and a beard? I mean, none of this makes sense. It makes me sad this is such an obscure book, I would love to see more people tear it apart.
I wish we could verify her info, too.
If it's on the record, please enlighten us further. I tried checking courthouse records and couldn't find anything relevant but what's online may be incomplete, of course.
It's not very convincing if someone is dubious of the truth of something, to claim that some other unnamed party corroborated it. You met this person and heard what they had to say, but you haven't presented the rest of us with anything other than vague hints.
Surely there is no risk in stating the name of the hospital as long as you stick to recorded facts. If the Houston courthouse has records that back you up, speak out. And who, after all this time, are you afraid of?
(If you believe Petti Wagner's version, won't God protect you? Or is divine intervention only for wealthy heiresses?)
The name of the hospital was “Rosewood” (either General or memorial — I can’t remember.) Anyway, as I told you earlier in the post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy’s live in Houston Texas, it was an RN, I work at the hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It didn’t deed of her anyway, as I told you earlier in a post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy lived in Houston Texas, & was an RN who worked at the very hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It did indeed occur. Like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to wear the heart. And then start back. But she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that PD Wagner just sue the hospital, and like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to where the heart — then start back, but she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that Petti Wagner did sue the hospital, and won. Also, as I have before, check at the courthouse in Houston Texas, Harris County specifically, and u can verify the lawsuit against the hospital
The point, as so often in such matters, is that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. There's a big difference between a claim to have a 9-foot sunflower in ones garden and one of a 9-foot Bigfoot.
I personally would not be surprised if there were some truth in Wagner's account, but the more astonishing aspects of it need backing up by supporting facts.
There's a reason for scepticism. People do tell lies and they are often simply mistaken. It doesn't matter if they are talking about flowers in thie garden, but on bigger issues, it does.
It is of public record in the state of Texas. Further complicating matters is the fact that the Dr. who was part of the kidnapping had a pseudonym in the book, and the Hospital's name was changed also. I posted earlier on this subject. U may find it interesting.
Well, that is SIMPLY YOUR OPINION, and you are certainly entitled to it. HOWEVER, YOU ARE NOT THE FINAL WORD ON HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT MOVES...... So your impression is simply what I said an "opinion" and that is all. My opinion is that I think you are completely wrong. I met Dr. Wager IN A HOLY GHOST FILLED CHURCH.... where she gave her testimony and ministered, and prayed for people. And you could feel the Holy Spirit moving incredibly. Now, to answer your question, YOU MOST CERTAINLY CAN find information about the trial and settlement! It was in Texas and is of public record there..... GO TO THE COURT HOUSE AND YOU WILL SEE YOU MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT LOOK 'EVERYWHERE.' I have a very close friend who was an RN at that VERY hospital (just before this occurred) and she WAS VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE on this matter, b/c she still had several friends working there when this happened. While she felt that Dr. Wagner just "came back to life" and it was a fluke of nature (she is not a Christian) she specifically remembered many details of the case, and the Doctor involved (his name & the name of the hospital were changed for the book by the way). So before just talking out the side of your neck, you should INDEED check "everywhere" (as you say) before you try and discredit the testimony of another Spirit Filled Christian (if you claim to be one). Perhaps it wasn't discernment from the Holy Spirit that led you to doubt this story. Had you been around during Jesus's time, when he turned the water into wine, you would be saying : "I'm going with my innate , God given, instincts and saying "If it don't look right, feel right or smell right...then it ain't right!"
If it's on the record, please enlighten us further. I tried checking courthouse records and couldn't find anything relevant but what's online may be incomplete, of course.
It's not very convincing if someone is dubious of the truth of something, to claim that some other unnamed party corroborated it. You met this person and heard what they had to say, but you haven't presented the rest of us with anything other than vague hints.
Surely there is no risk in stating the name of the hospital as long as you stick to recorded facts. If the Houston courthouse has records that back you up, speak out. And who, after all this time, are you afraid of?
(If you believe Petti Wagner's version, won't God protect you? Or is divine intervention only for wealthy heiresses?)
The name of the hospital was “Rosewood” (either General or memorial — I can’t remember.) Anyway, as I told you earlier in the post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy’s live in Houston Texas, it was an RN, I work at the hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It didn’t deed of her anyway, as I told you earlier in a post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy lived in Houston Texas, & was an RN who worked at the very hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It did indeed occur. Like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to wear the heart. And then start back. But she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that PD Wagner just sue the hospital, and like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to where the heart — then start back, but she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that Petti Wagner did sue the hospital, and won. Also, as I have before, check at the courthouse in Houston Texas, Harris County specifically, and u can verify the lawsuit against the hospital
Not disputing the fact that Jehovah (one of his MANY names) and Jesus are also referred to as "God" & "Jesus"....... however the name of "Jesus" works just fine for me! :-)
It is amazing how just because SOMETHING DOESN'T HAPPEN TO SOMEONE, they automatically THINK THEY have all the answers in the universe, and are the final SAY on what could possibly happen to someone ELSE!!!! I never say "this or that" did or didn't happen to SOMEONE ELSE, because it is just complete ARROGANCE to think YOU have the final say in what happened to SOMEONE ELSE!!! Just because it didn't happen to YOU, who do you think YOU are to say it COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED to SOMEONE ELSE!!! U are not them...... U don't know what happened to them....
The point, as so often in such matters, is that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. There's a big difference between a claim to have a 9-foot sunflower in ones garden and one of a 9-foot Bigfoot.
I personally would not be surprised if there were some truth in Wagner's account, but the more astonishing aspects of it need backing up by supporting facts.
There's a reason for scepticism. People do tell lies and they are often simply mistaken. It doesn't matter if they are talking about flowers in thie garden, but on bigger issues, it does.
Petti Wangner is not a fictional person. She does exsist or did in the 80's. I heard her testimony in Cleveland, Tx. when I was younger. This story was aired on the local news in Houston when it happened. As far as trying to verify the validity of the story, try contacting KTRK or KKRW in Houston. By the way, I loved the book. Why would she want to make up a lye this thick. She gave away more books than she ever sold. I don't think she wrote the book for fame or riches. She wrote it to verify her faith in our Lord, Jesus Christ.
I did some typing briefly for Petti or Dr. Wagner as I called her, in 1988 I believe, when she moved to Spring Tx from Florida in her last years. It was a miraculous event that I read her book and ran into her friend at a meeting the next day. When I asked if I cd do anything for her her friend asked if I cd type, which I did for a living actually. So I transcribed some sermon tapes for her, a message she sent a pastor friend, printed double spaced so she could write comments in the blank areas. She was a woman of action!
I agree with all of this, but would like to make a small correction: God's name is actually Reginald. Reginald Edward.
Otherwise, may all of you be blessed and sanctified.
Thank You, Alfred! Circulating these snaps to Americans might be the same as showing FDR in a wheelchair, but Obama is doing a good job of crippling himself politically without them needing to see an unflattering picture.
Sorry. Back to Petti. Wonder if anybody found those millions of dollars missing in Orlando, Florida, USA?
cy
And I think Petti Wagner is real enough, though not her supposed experiences. She's been on radio and TV I understand. Recordings can be found online of her, too, as on this page: http://www.freeevangelism.com/cd_12.htm
Thank You, Alfred! Circulating these snaps to Americans might be the same as showing FDR in a wheelchair, but Obama is doing a good job of crippling himself politically without them needing to see an unflattering picture.
Sorry. Back to Petti. Wonder if anybody found those millions of dollars missing in Orlando, Florida, USA?
cy
I have read this book and find the story barley believable, though a thrilling one, at times. As many have commented, there is little information on Mrs. Wagner outside of what has been written about her book. So little that I am beginning to wonder if she existed.
At the same time, there have been no lawsuits for slander or defamation from Dr. Holmes or the medical centre where she supposedly was treated horrifically for 10 days. That is strange to me, considering the inclination of American jurisprudence. If I had been the owner or manager of that hospital, I would have a very good case against her (or her estate) for making false statements and then profiting from the story.
Why is there no record of that? There must be an army of lawsuit lawyers, in the USA and elsewhere, who would relish the opportunity to recover millions of pounds for the affected medical establishments.
By the way, niether did I find a picture of Obama smoking. Maybe one just doesn't exist. It is a useless coverup, indeed.
And I think Petti Wagner is real enough, though not her supposed experiences. She's been on radio and TV I understand. Recordings can be found online of her, too, as on this page: http://www.freeevangelism.com/cd_12.htm
Thank You, Alfred! Circulating these snaps to Americans might be the same as showing FDR in a wheelchair, but Obama is doing a good job of crippling himself politically without them needing to see an unflattering picture.
Sorry. Back to Petti. Wonder if anybody found those millions of dollars missing in Orlando, Florida, USA?
cy
It's been about a year since Mr. Rosenfeld made known his attempt to make a movie about the subject. Wonder if he contacted her estate or daughter? It would be interesting to learn how that effort's going....
an attempt by Google and other search engines to keep her information off the web
Yes, that's much more likely than that she made the whole thing up, isn't it? Nobody tells lies, do they? Especially not nice old ladies who want to sell their crazy book and their even crazier version of Christianity.
As for pictures of Barack Obama smoking, have you actually tried that search? If there's a conspiracy to hide those images, it's a pretty useless one. You have to be cunning enough to type his name (even if misspelt) and the word "smoking" into a search engine. Staggering.
I heard Petti Wagner interviewed by Sid Roth on his radio programme, and I was very impressed with this woman and what she had to say. Although I believe everything she told, I am currently exploring the 'net to verify tiral dates, aviation accidents, names, convictions, and even if Ms. Wagner is still alive.
Jen is right, there is no information, outside of this unique venue, to verify her story......nothing! It is true the incident happened in the early '70's and the book was not written until the 80's. But if we can find out from the 'net that Heindrich Himmler, who hasn't been alive since the '40's, was a chicken farmer before he was Kommandant of the Waffen SS, then surely something can be gleaned to ascertain the truth in her testimony.
I don't understand what's going on, unless there is an attempt by Google and other search engines to keep her information off the web, much the same way you can't find pictures of Barak Obama smoking.
an attempt by Google and other search engines to keep her information off the web
Yes, that's much more likely than that she made the whole thing up, isn't it? Nobody tells lies, do they? Especially not nice old ladies who want to sell their crazy book and their even crazier version of Christianity.
As for pictures of Barack Obama smoking, have you actually tried that search? If there's a conspiracy to hide those images, it's a pretty useless one. You have to be cunning enough to type his name (even if misspelt) and the word "smoking" into a search engine. Staggering.
It's no big surprise there isn't a lot of info about this on the internet. The kidnapping and trial took place in the very early 1970's . . . way before the internet. The book was published in the 1980's before the expansion of the internet. It's a wild story, difficult to believe, but contrarty to the opinions of some of the commentors here, the lack of online information about it proves nothing. There's tons of info on the web about the Loch Ness monster, which doesn't make it any more true than the lack of info about Petti's alleged ordeal makes it false.
My two cents.
It is of public record in the state of Texas. Further complicating matters is the fact that the Dr. who was part of the kidnapping had a pseudonym in the book, and the Hospital's name was changed also. I posted earlier on this subject. U may find it interesting.
This book altered my life - I believe it was my calling to experience a closer walk with our great GOD, the creator of this universe. Read it 12 years ago. Awesome reading if only you believe. Thank you for sharing this powerful testimony.
I'm not a holy roller but I am in the midst of reading this excellent book. There is no way anyone can make someting up like this. This woman lived in Hell for ten days and is still alive. This should be insperation to everyone that god works in mysterious ways!
Really? There is no way anyone can make someting up like this? Have you ever read fiction?
People of your sort scare me. Your the type who believe the contents of such things as "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" When someone shouts "She's a witch!!" you don't even wait to see if she floats or sinks, its directly on to the pire with her!
I worked with Dr. Wagner to make a film of her book from a script I wrote and she approved before her death. If anyone reading this has contact with the executor of her estate or her daughter, please contact me with that information. I would like to continue working on the project.
It's been about a year since Mr. Rosenfeld made known his attempt to make a movie about the subject. Wonder if he contacted her estate or daughter? It would be interesting to learn how that effort's going....
I read this book some 15 years ago and it made an impact on my life, I was telling the story to my husband yesterday. i do believe her story for god has spoken to me on many occasions on what to say and direction for my life many of times.
A few years ago a couple from the USA gave me this book as a present when they were working here in Venezuela. The book I have was signed by Dr. Petti Wagner herself which makes it much more interesting and important, at least for me. I believe her story. I believe Jesus and then the Holy Trinity helped her. I think every one has to believe in something and be respetful of what others belive in. Remember what is written in your (the USA) coins and money bank notes "In God we trust". GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
I agree w/ you Jen. I read the book it is was just nonsense to me. There are all these articles on Dr. Wagner on Christian websites and no others. I'm thinking this book is a failed attempt to try and convert people. Very failed attempt.
I've just finished reading this book. Someone left it at the shop where I work 2 days a week. From the cover it looked like a trashy paperback so I avoided the read but decided to take it on the train to pass time on my ride home. When all is read and done...no, folks...I don't doubt her "faith" and "belief" but instinctively this doesn't sound right. I've looked EVERYWHERE for mention of the trials or ANY coverage concerning this drama but to no avail. Spirit works in the light and there is no light here instead everything seems to be shrouded in darkness, mystery and secrecy. I'm going with my innate , God given, instincts and saying "If it don't look right, feel right or smell right...then it ain't right!"
Well, that is SIMPLY YOUR OPINION, and you are certainly entitled to it. HOWEVER, YOU ARE NOT THE FINAL WORD ON HOW THE HOLY SPIRIT MOVES...... So your impression is simply what I said an "opinion" and that is all. My opinion is that I think you are completely wrong. I met Dr. Wager IN A HOLY GHOST FILLED CHURCH.... where she gave her testimony and ministered, and prayed for people. And you could feel the Holy Spirit moving incredibly. Now, to answer your question, YOU MOST CERTAINLY CAN find information about the trial and settlement! It was in Texas and is of public record there..... GO TO THE COURT HOUSE AND YOU WILL SEE YOU MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT LOOK 'EVERYWHERE.' I have a very close friend who was an RN at that VERY hospital (just before this occurred) and she WAS VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE on this matter, b/c she still had several friends working there when this happened. While she felt that Dr. Wagner just "came back to life" and it was a fluke of nature (she is not a Christian) she specifically remembered many details of the case, and the Doctor involved (his name & the name of the hospital were changed for the book by the way). So before just talking out the side of your neck, you should INDEED check "everywhere" (as you say) before you try and discredit the testimony of another Spirit Filled Christian (if you claim to be one). Perhaps it wasn't discernment from the Holy Spirit that led you to doubt this story. Had you been around during Jesus's time, when he turned the water into wine, you would be saying : "I'm going with my innate , God given, instincts and saying "If it don't look right, feel right or smell right...then it ain't right!"
If it's on the record, please enlighten us further. I tried checking courthouse records and couldn't find anything relevant but what's online may be incomplete, of course.
It's not very convincing if someone is dubious of the truth of something, to claim that some other unnamed party corroborated it. You met this person and heard what they had to say, but you haven't presented the rest of us with anything other than vague hints.
Surely there is no risk in stating the name of the hospital as long as you stick to recorded facts. If the Houston courthouse has records that back you up, speak out. And who, after all this time, are you afraid of?
(If you believe Petti Wagner's version, won't God protect you? Or is divine intervention only for wealthy heiresses?)
The name of the hospital was “Rosewood” (either General or memorial — I can’t remember.) Anyway, as I told you earlier in the post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy’s live in Houston Texas, it was an RN, I work at the hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It didn’t deed of her anyway, as I told you earlier in a post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy lived in Houston Texas, & was an RN who worked at the very hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It did indeed occur. Like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to wear the heart. And then start back. But she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that PD Wagner just sue the hospital, and like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to where the heart — then start back, but she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that Petti Wagner did sue the hospital, and won. Also, as I have before, check at the courthouse in Houston Texas, Harris County specifically, and u can verify the lawsuit against the hospital
I read this book. Was Blessed by it. I believe in the release and help God gave her. I am sorry you fail to see the value of this book. It changed my life. I pray you will experience a change in Jesus name.
I just finished reading this incredible book. It has built my faith. The wonderful God who created the universe with his indescribable power is the God who did all of the amazing things for Petti. Petti knows God cannot be put in a box. Thank you, Petti, for writing this book and thank you Shirley and mom for sharing it with me. Pam from Oregon
My husband and I are missionaries to South America; we currently live in Pennsylvania. We know God is real; His Name is Yahweh. His Son whom we call Jesus is actually Yahsua, which is how He could say that He came in His Father's Name. We just started using their real Names (Name - both are the same) and our relationship with Him is getting more and more real and warm. Try it, folks.
My husband was also healed in l986 of a serious back disability; he now at age 55 puts on roofs and does all kinds of heavy lifting. We know Yahshua is real! We can hardly wait to live with Him someday (but not too soon) He will be reigning for l000 years shortly. Keep looking toward Israel, the fig tree, and you will see the signs of this all transpiring shortly, including the Mark of the Beast, which has to happen first.
I've gone off Yahsua. Also when I hear the words "Mark of the Beast" I think of my Uncle Mark, a rabid Christian who thinks I am going straight to hell, no questions asked. Why? Cause I believe that homosexuals were not going to hell.
As it happens I decided that it would be fittingly ironic to pray to Reginald Edward one night. I asked him to heal my ... well I don't know what it was, I've obviously been very sick lately, blood coming out of the seams everywhere constantly, you wouldn't want me to describe it. Been too afraid to visit the doctor.
Anyway, I prayed to old Reginald and the next day I woke up quite healed. No sickness, no blood, went to the doctor and he said I was completely healthy. I am doing roof work and all kinds of heavy lifting now, and no blood anywhere.
Furthermore my tomatoes did considerably better than the neighbors. I am not sure what Reginald Edward looks like but I am painting an icon to put in my prayer room. It will be Reginald Edward fighting off the Harlequin Love Ponies of Quilleby Meadows. My own interpretation of the features of his true and perfect holiness is 1st Marquess Wellesley, about 1825, but I would welcome knowledge of anyone who has a better idea of the blinding face of our redemption.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Richard_Colley_Wellesley,_Marquess_Wellesley_by_John_Philip_Davis_('Pope'_Davis).jpg
Not disputing the fact that Jehovah (one of his MANY names) and Jesus are also referred to as "God" & "Jesus"....... however the name of "Jesus" works just fine for me! :-)
I agree with all of this, but would like to make a small correction: God's name is actually Reginald. Reginald Edward.
Otherwise, may all of you be blessed and sanctified.
Joyce - If god saves some from death so they can spread his word then why did he let thousands of Christian soldiers die in battle with the Muslims, thousands of missionaries die en-route to their prospective missions?
If you check missionary A's untimely death death at the hands of a rabid mongoose vs. missionary B's long life, ended at age 102 by eating too much cheese, you will find no difference between the two and what they could have accomplished.
Predestination is a foolish, unsound, and mostly forgotten idea with many, many theological holes. It was torn apart centuries ago by religious men. The type of people who still hold on to such notions simply haven't spent much time in self examination. And people who believe the wacky things Texas preachers have to say might as well be drinking the punch of Jim Jones.
Joyce, the word you are looking for is "sceptic", not cynic. The only evidence that the Bible is the word of God is that some people say it is. People say and believe all kinds of crazy stuff, so I don't think that's good enough. There are other religions than Christianity after all, and their adherents seem just as convinced, just as sincere, just as filled with spiritual insight. So, who can possibly say which is right? The simplest, and to me most sane answer, is that they are all equally wrong.
Dear cynic, Your view is earthy and legitamite and limited.
I personally met two other people raised from the dead. One is a short term missionary to India. He died of food poisoning on a high mountain road far from a hospital and the people in the car with him circled him and prayed with fervancy and desparation to God to bring this spiritually powerful man back to life because they needed him and his deep love for God to lead and strengthen them. This man lives in western PA and he and his wife are long-time friends of mine both before and after this occurrence.
The other man is a missionary to Central and South America. He lives in Texas. He trains and leads people in missions work.
So why would God choose these people over any others? This is our perspective, but not God's.
God's perspective is this. "All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be." Psalm 139:16 NIV
God has a plan and a purpose for each of our lives. Our jealous comparing of personal worth based on money or outward grand success is not God's view of us. He rejoices over each one of us with singing and He quiets us with His love. Zephaniah 3:17 God takes deep delight in each and every one of us.
We need to take God at his word about ourselves. It will set us free to rejoice with God at the positive outcomes He brings into other people's lives. Little do we know what horrors other people have experienced in the secrete places in their lives before this goodness of God occurred. Of this, I speak from experience.
If you are one of those with horrors in your life, then you are a prime candidate for God to show up in His abundant glory to bring greatness and goodness into your life through his hand and his plan for you to be more than blessed, but also to be overflowing so that others are blessed with the excess flowing off of you.
Peace I leave with you. My peace I give unto you. Not as the world gives, give I unto you.
With Him, Joyce
I am almost done with this book and it is absolutely amazing what she went through! I got on here to see what others say. And knew there would be cynical people. All I know is that He says ALL things are possible with God. He can move any mountain. Sure, I have wondered before why some can audibly hear His voice and others (like me), haven't. But isn't it really about faith? I like how the author spoke of blind faith! Who knows what He may have in store for me..or for anyone who posted on here! He works in mysterious ways and He does not think like we do either! I cannot imagine why someone would 'make-up' a story like this. I think these things happen to build others faith. We will always have scoffers. Satan doesn't want us to believe...and he is the deceiver. I will put my trust in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yes, yes, and YES!! Praise God!
Joyce, the word you are looking for is "sceptic", not cynic. The only evidence that the Bible is the word of God is that some people say it is. People say and believe all kinds of crazy stuff, so I don't think that's good enough. There are other religions than Christianity after all, and their adherents seem just as convinced, just as sincere, just as filled with spiritual insight. So, who can possibly say which is right? The simplest, and to me most sane answer, is that they are all equally wrong.
I was told about the book
"Who am I to judge another
"Who am I to judge another person?" - that's amazingly disingenuous, isn't it? Do you give money to everyone who asks for it? Do you believe every tall tale you are told? Would you believe a Muslim who claims that his religion is the only true one?
Faith is fine, until it's someone else's that's different from yours.
Or alternatively the voice of
My grandmother gave me a copy
Or alternatively the voice of
How do you know your heaven
Really? There is no way
I've gone off Yahsua. Also
Some of us don't want help
Some of us don't want help with our unbelief, Donna. Some of us like it just as it is.
Not sure what your point is…
Not sure what your point is in continuing comments here. If you don't believe the story bugger off. Leave these people alone.
I just finished reading this
How do you know your heaven
Some of us don't want help
Some of us don't want help with our unbelief, Donna. Some of us like it just as it is.
Not sure what your point is…
Not sure what your point is in continuing comments here. If you don't believe the story bugger off. Leave these people alone.
Thought we were talking about
IF?
IF?
I take that back. It was
Wasn't tryiing to analogize
IF?
IF?
That's a ridiculous analogy.
That's a ridiculous analogy. Irving's bio was a widely publicised work about very prominent people, many with deep pockets. Wagner's book isn't.
Do you know the real names of those supposedly portrayed in it? Does anyone? You can't libel someone if nobody can tell who they are.
Back in 1971 (about the time
That's a ridiculous analogy.
That's a ridiculous analogy. Irving's bio was a widely publicised work about very prominent people, many with deep pockets. Wagner's book isn't.
Do you know the real names of those supposedly portrayed in it? Does anyone? You can't libel someone if nobody can tell who they are.
The names in the book have
The names in the book have been changed, though in the past that's not deterred some people from taking legal action against writers of avowed fiction.
I'd dearly love to know what the documented facts are in this case, but no one seems able to produce any.
Murdered Heiress is not
Somebody a few messages ago
The names in the book have
The names in the book have been changed, though in the past that's not deterred some people from taking legal action against writers of avowed fiction.
I'd dearly love to know what the documented facts are in this case, but no one seems able to produce any.
Murdered Heiress is not
I read this years ago and
If it's on the record, please
If it's on the record, please enlighten us further. I tried checking courthouse records and couldn't find anything relevant but what's online may be incomplete, of course.
It's not very convincing if someone is dubious of the truth of something, to claim that some other unnamed party corroborated it. You met this person and heard what they had to say, but you haven't presented the rest of us with anything other than vague hints.
You may have to check the
You may have to check the Houston courthouse. The hospital name was changed — I’m afraid to post the real name due to liability.
Surely there is no risk in
Surely there is no risk in stating the name of the hospital as long as you stick to recorded facts. If the Houston courthouse has records that back you up, speak out. And who, after all this time, are you afraid of?
(If you believe Petti Wagner's version, won't God protect you? Or is divine intervention only for wealthy heiresses?)
The name of the hospital was
The name of the hospital was “Rosewood” (either General or memorial — I can’t remember.) Anyway, as I told you earlier in the post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy’s live in Houston Texas, it was an RN, I work at the hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It didn’t deed of her anyway, as I told you earlier in a post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy lived in Houston Texas, & was an RN who worked at the very hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It did indeed occur. Like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to wear the heart. And then start back. But she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that PD Wagner just sue the hospital, and like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to where the heart — then start back, but she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that Petti Wagner did sue the hospital, and won. Also, as I have before, check at the courthouse in Houston Texas, Harris County specifically, and u can verify the lawsuit against the hospital
The point, as so often in
The point, as so often in such matters, is that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. There's a big difference between a claim to have a 9-foot sunflower in ones garden and one of a 9-foot Bigfoot.
I personally would not be surprised if there were some truth in Wagner's account, but the more astonishing aspects of it need backing up by supporting facts.
There's a reason for scepticism. People do tell lies and they are often simply mistaken. It doesn't matter if they are talking about flowers in thie garden, but on bigger issues, it does.
It is of public record in the
Well, that is SIMPLY YOUR
If it's on the record, please
If it's on the record, please enlighten us further. I tried checking courthouse records and couldn't find anything relevant but what's online may be incomplete, of course.
It's not very convincing if someone is dubious of the truth of something, to claim that some other unnamed party corroborated it. You met this person and heard what they had to say, but you haven't presented the rest of us with anything other than vague hints.
You may have to check the
You may have to check the Houston courthouse. The hospital name was changed — I’m afraid to post the real name due to liability.
Surely there is no risk in
Surely there is no risk in stating the name of the hospital as long as you stick to recorded facts. If the Houston courthouse has records that back you up, speak out. And who, after all this time, are you afraid of?
(If you believe Petti Wagner's version, won't God protect you? Or is divine intervention only for wealthy heiresses?)
The name of the hospital was
The name of the hospital was “Rosewood” (either General or memorial — I can’t remember.) Anyway, as I told you earlier in the post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy’s live in Houston Texas, it was an RN, I work at the hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It didn’t deed of her anyway, as I told you earlier in a post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy lived in Houston Texas, & was an RN who worked at the very hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It did indeed occur. Like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to wear the heart. And then start back. But she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that PD Wagner just sue the hospital, and like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to where the heart — then start back, but she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that Petti Wagner did sue the hospital, and won. Also, as I have before, check at the courthouse in Houston Texas, Harris County specifically, and u can verify the lawsuit against the hospital
Not disputing the fact that
It is amazing how just
The point, as so often in
The point, as so often in such matters, is that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. There's a big difference between a claim to have a 9-foot sunflower in ones garden and one of a 9-foot Bigfoot.
I personally would not be surprised if there were some truth in Wagner's account, but the more astonishing aspects of it need backing up by supporting facts.
There's a reason for scepticism. People do tell lies and they are often simply mistaken. It doesn't matter if they are talking about flowers in thie garden, but on bigger issues, it does.
Petti Wangner is not a
I did some typing briefly…
I did some typing briefly for Petti or Dr. Wagner as I called her, in 1988 I believe, when she moved to Spring Tx from Florida in her last years. It was a miraculous event that I read her book and ran into her friend at a meeting the next day. When I asked if I cd do anything for her her friend asked if I cd type, which I did for a living actually. So I transcribed some sermon tapes for her, a message she sent a pastor friend, printed double spaced so she could write comments in the blank areas. She was a woman of action!
I agree with all of this, but
For balance, anyone got any
For balance, anyone got any pics of Sarah Palin guzzling moonshine?
Thank You, Alfred!
For balance, anyone got any
For balance, anyone got any pics of Sarah Palin guzzling moonshine?
And I think Petti Wagner is
And I think Petti Wagner is real enough, though not her supposed experiences. She's been on radio and TV I understand. Recordings can be found online of her, too, as on this page: http://www.freeevangelism.com/cd_12.htm
Just in case anyone cares.
Just in case anyone cares. http://obama-pictures.blogspot.com/2009/11/barack-obama-smoking.html
Thank You, Alfred!
For balance, anyone got any
For balance, anyone got any pics of Sarah Palin guzzling moonshine?
I have read this book and
And I think Petti Wagner is
And I think Petti Wagner is real enough, though not her supposed experiences. She's been on radio and TV I understand. Recordings can be found online of her, too, as on this page: http://www.freeevangelism.com/cd_12.htm
Just in case anyone cares.
Just in case anyone cares. http://obama-pictures.blogspot.com/2009/11/barack-obama-smoking.html
Thank You, Alfred!
For balance, anyone got any
For balance, anyone got any pics of Sarah Palin guzzling moonshine?
It's been about a year since
an attempt by Google and
Yes, that's much more likely than that she made the whole thing up, isn't it? Nobody tells lies, do they? Especially not nice old ladies who want to sell their crazy book and their even crazier version of Christianity.
As for pictures of Barack Obama smoking, have you actually tried that search? If there's a conspiracy to hide those images, it's a pretty useless one. You have to be cunning enough to type his name (even if misspelt) and the word "smoking" into a search engine. Staggering.
I heard Petti Wagner
an attempt by Google and
Yes, that's much more likely than that she made the whole thing up, isn't it? Nobody tells lies, do they? Especially not nice old ladies who want to sell their crazy book and their even crazier version of Christianity.
As for pictures of Barack Obama smoking, have you actually tried that search? If there's a conspiracy to hide those images, it's a pretty useless one. You have to be cunning enough to type his name (even if misspelt) and the word "smoking" into a search engine. Staggering.
It's no big surprise there
It is of public record in the
This book altered my life - I
Well, he wouldn't be God if
Well, he wouldn't be God if he couldn't do these things, would he? But could he give you the gift of critical thinking? (Or would that be too much?)
This book is amazing loved
Well, he wouldn't be God if
Well, he wouldn't be God if he couldn't do these things, would he? But could he give you the gift of critical thinking? (Or would that be too much?)
> There is no way anyone can
> There is no way anyone can make someting up like this
Could you send me your address details? I have a bridge for sale at a bargain price that you might be interested in.
I'm not a holy roller but I
Really? There is no way
> There is no way anyone can
> There is no way anyone can make someting up like this
Could you send me your address details? I have a bridge for sale at a bargain price that you might be interested in.
I worked with Dr. Wagner to
It's been about a year since
I read this book some 15
A few years ago a couple
I agree w/ you Jen. I read
I've just finished reading
Well, that is SIMPLY YOUR
If it's on the record, please
If it's on the record, please enlighten us further. I tried checking courthouse records and couldn't find anything relevant but what's online may be incomplete, of course.
It's not very convincing if someone is dubious of the truth of something, to claim that some other unnamed party corroborated it. You met this person and heard what they had to say, but you haven't presented the rest of us with anything other than vague hints.
You may have to check the
You may have to check the Houston courthouse. The hospital name was changed — I’m afraid to post the real name due to liability.
Surely there is no risk in
Surely there is no risk in stating the name of the hospital as long as you stick to recorded facts. If the Houston courthouse has records that back you up, speak out. And who, after all this time, are you afraid of?
(If you believe Petti Wagner's version, won't God protect you? Or is divine intervention only for wealthy heiresses?)
The name of the hospital was
The name of the hospital was “Rosewood” (either General or memorial — I can’t remember.) Anyway, as I told you earlier in the post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy’s live in Houston Texas, it was an RN, I work at the hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It didn’t deed of her anyway, as I told you earlier in a post, I had a friend of mine at Dorothy lived in Houston Texas, & was an RN who worked at the very hospital shortly before that happened. She was very familiar with that case. It did indeed occur. Like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to wear the heart. And then start back. But she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that PD Wagner just sue the hospital, and like you, she was a skeptic. She said that she believed that people who had electric shock, frequently at those type of symptoms to where the heart — then start back, but she was knowledgeable enough to let me know that that Petti Wagner did sue the hospital, and won. Also, as I have before, check at the courthouse in Houston Texas, Harris County specifically, and u can verify the lawsuit against the hospital
I read this book. Was
I just finished reading this
My husband and I are
I've gone off Yahsua. Also
Not disputing the fact that
I agree with all of this, but
Joyce - If god saves some
Joyce, the word you are
Joyce, the word you are looking for is "sceptic", not cynic. The only evidence that the Bible is the word of God is that some people say it is. People say and believe all kinds of crazy stuff, so I don't think that's good enough. There are other religions than Christianity after all, and their adherents seem just as convinced, just as sincere, just as filled with spiritual insight. So, who can possibly say which is right? The simplest, and to me most sane answer, is that they are all equally wrong.
you need to believe what i
Dear cynic, Your view is
I am almost done with this
Joyce, the word you are
Joyce, the word you are looking for is "sceptic", not cynic. The only evidence that the Bible is the word of God is that some people say it is. People say and believe all kinds of crazy stuff, so I don't think that's good enough. There are other religions than Christianity after all, and their adherents seem just as convinced, just as sincere, just as filled with spiritual insight. So, who can possibly say which is right? The simplest, and to me most sane answer, is that they are all equally wrong.
you need to believe what i